Chapter 44

大取

Major Illustrations

天之愛人心,薄於聖人之愛人也;其利人也,厚於聖人之利人也。大人之愛小人也,薄於小人之愛大人也;其利小人也,厚於小人之利大人也。以臧為其親也而愛之,愛其親也;以臧為其親也而利之,非利其親也。以樂為利其子,而為其子欲之,愛其子也;以樂為利其子,而為其子求之,非求其子也。

Heaven’s love of man is more all-encompassing than the sage’s love of man; its benefiting man is more profound than the sage’s benefiting man. The great man’s love of the small man is more all-encompassing than the small man’s love of the great man; his benefiting the small man is more profound than the small man’s benefiting the great man.

To consider an elaborate funeral as a manifestation of love for one’s parents is to love one’s parents. To consider an elaborate funeral as being of benefit to one’s parents is not to benefit one’s parents. To consider music to be of benefit to one’s son and to desire it for one’s son is to love one’s son. To consider music to be of benefit to one’s son and so seek it for one’s son is not to benefit one’s son.

於所體之中,而權輕重之謂權。權非為是也,亦非為非也。權,正也。斷指以存腕,利之中取大,害之中取小也。害之中取小也,非取害也,取利也。其所取者,人之所執也。遇盜人,而斷指以免身,利也;其遇盜人,害也。斷指與斷腕,利於天下相若,無擇也。死生利若,非無擇也。殺一人以存天下,非殺一人以利天下也。殺己以存天下,是殺己以利天下。於事為之中,而權輕重之謂求。求,為之非也。害之中取小,求為義,非為義也。為暴人語天之為是也,而性,為暴人歌天之為非也。諸陳執既有所為,而我為之陳執,執之所為,因吾所為也;若陳執未有所為,而我為之陳執,陳執因吾所為也。暴人為我為天之以人非為是也,而性。不可正而正之。利之中取大,非不得已也;害之中取小,不得已也。所未有而取焉,是利之中取大也;於所既有而棄焉,是害之中取小也。

With respect to the parts [of the body], there is the weighing up of unimportant and important. This is called ‘weighing’. Weighing is not about being right or wrong. It is about the weighing up being correct (i.e. making the right choice). In terms of benefit, cutting off a finger to preserve the hand is to choose the greater [benefit], whereas in terms of harm, it is to choose the lesser [harm]. In terms of harm, choosing the lesser is not to choose harm, but to choose benefit. What is chosen is controlled by others. When you meet a robber, to cut off a finger in order to spare the (whole) body is a benefit. Meeting a robber is the harm. In terms of benefit to the world, cutting off a finger and cutting off a hand are alike; there is no choosing. In terms of benefit, dying and living are as one; there is no choosing. If killing one person would preserve the world, it is wrong to kill one person to benefit the world. If killing oneself would preserve the world, it is right to kill oneself to benefit the world. With respect to the conduct of affairs, there is a weighing up of light and heavy. This is called ‘seeking’. Seeking is about right and wrong. In situations where the lesser harm is chosen, the seeking may be yi (right and just) or it may not be yi.

Is it right to speak of Heaven’s intention with respect to the tyrant? It is his nature to be a tyrant. To attribute this to Heaven’s intention is wrong. If the various long-established beliefs have already had their effects and I act in accordance with these effects, [then] it is the effects of those beliefs that cause me to act as I do. If the various long-established beliefs have not had their effects and yet I act in accordance with these beliefs, then in terms of the long-established beliefs, it is through me that there are effects.

The tyrant says: ‘I am Heaven’s intention’, which is to take what people condemn and deem it right, and a nature that cannot be corrected and correct it. In choosing the greater from what is beneficial, there is an alternative. In choosing the lesser from what is harmful, there is no alternative. Choosing what one does not yet have is to choose the greater from what is beneficial. Casting aside what one already has is to choose the lesser from what is harmful.

義可厚,厚之;義可薄,薄之,謂倫列。德行、君上、老長、親戚,此皆所厚也。為長厚,不為幼薄。親厚,厚。親薄,薄。親至,薄不至。義,厚親不稱行而顧行。為天下厚禹,為禹厚也。為天下愛禹,乃為禹之愛人也。厚禹之加於天下,而厚禹不加於天下。若惡盜之為加於天下,而惡盜不加於天下。愛人不外己,己在所愛之中。己在所愛,愛加於己。倫列之愛己,愛人也。聖人惡疾病,不惡危難。正體不動,欲人之利也,非惡人之害也。聖人不為其室,臧之故,在於臧。聖人不得為子之事。聖人之法,死亡親,為天下也。厚親,分也,以死亡之,體渴興利。有厚薄而毋倫列,之興利為己。

If, according to what is yi (right and dutiful) it is permissible to love [someone] ‘thickly’, then love them ‘thickly’. If, according to what is yi, it is permissible to love [someone] ‘thinly’, then love them ‘thinly’. This is to speak of ‘the proper sequence’. Virtuous rulers, elders and parents are all people one should love ‘thickly’. [However,] loving one’s elders ‘thickly’ does not entail loving those who are young ‘thinly’. If relations are close, they should be loved ‘thickly’; if they are distant, they should be loved ‘thinly’. One should be on close terms with one’s parents, whereas with respect to those other than parents, one may love ‘thinly’. It is in accord with principle to love one’s parents ‘thickly’. One must look closely at their conduct, but hope only to see virtue.

To [love] Yu ‘thickly’ for the sake of the world is not for the sake of his being Yu. To love Yu ‘thickly’ for the sake of the world is, in fact, for the sake of Yu’s love of man. To hold Yu in esteem for what he does ‘adds to’ the world, whereas to hold Yu in esteem (as an individual) does not ‘add to’ the world. Likewise, to abominate a robber for what he does ‘adds to’ the world, whereas to abominate a robber (as an individual) does not ‘add to’ the world. The love of mankind does not exclude the self, for the self lies within that which is loved. If the self lies within that which is loved, then love ‘adds to’ the self. There is ‘the proper sequence’ in love of the self and love of mankind. (or – Love of the self and love of mankind are without distinction.)

The sage is averse to disease and decay; he is not averse to danger and difficulty. He maintains the integrity of his body and the resolve of his heart. He desires the people’s benefit; he is not averse to the people’s love. The sage does not consider his own dwelling. The sage does not concern himself with the affairs of the son. The sage’s method is to turn his mind from his parents when they die; he does this for the sake of the world. To treat parents ‘thickly’ is his lot, but when they die he turns his mind from them. His whole endeavour is to bring benefit [to the world]. When there is ‘thick’ and ‘thin’ and not ‘the proper sequence’ (or – ‘no difference of degree’) in bringing about benefit, this is for the self.

語經:語經也,非白馬焉,執駒焉說求之,無說非也。殺犬之無大,非也。三物必具,然後足以生。

With respect to language, there are constant rules. (These include) the following three propositions: negating the white horse/horse (argument), not saying that ‘in seeking a horse one may direct attention to a foal’ is wrong and negating (the argument) that killing a pup is not killing a dog. These three things must be set out; then there is enough for life.

臧之愛己,非為愛己之人也。厚不外己。愛無厚薄,譽己,非賢也。義,利,不義,害。志功為辯。

Zang’s loving himself does not make him a self-loving person. ‘Thick’ does not exclude the self. Love is without distinction between ‘thick’ and ‘thin’. Praising oneself is to be unworthy. Yi (right action, righteousness and justice) is beneficial; action that is not yi is harmful. Intention and outcome are to be distinguished.

有友於秦馬,有友於馬,也智來者之馬也。

To have a friend on a Qin horse is to have a friend on a horse. One knows that what has come is a horse.

愛眾世與愛寡世相若。兼愛之有相若。愛尚世與愛後世,一若今之世人也。鬼,非人也,兄之鬼,兄也。天下之利驩。聖人有愛而無利,俔日之言也,乃客之言也。天下無人,子墨子之言也。猶在。不得已而欲之,非欲之也,專殺臧。非殺臧也。專殺盜,非殺盜也。

Everywhere study the love of people. The love of many generations and the love of few generations are the same. In universal love it is also the same. The love of former generations and the love of future generations are the same as the love of the present generation. The world’s benefit is pleasing. For the sage there is love and not benefit. These are Confucian words; that is to say a stranger’s words. Even if the world had no people, the words of Master Mo would still remain.

小圜之圜,與大圜之圜同。不至尺之不至也,與不至千里之不至不異,其不至同者,遠近之謂也。是璜也,是玉也。

The ‘circle’ of a ‘small circle’ and the ‘circle’ of a ‘large circle’ are the same. The ‘not reaching’ of ‘not reaching a chi’ and the ‘not reaching’ of ‘not reaching a thousand li’ are not different. That their ‘not reaching’ is the same is that far and near are being spoken of. This huang (jade ornament) is this jade.

意楹,非意木也,意是楹之木也。意指之人也,非意人也。意獲也,乃意禽也。志功,不可以相從也。

But thinking of the huang is not thinking of jade. It is thinking of this huang’s jade. This pillar is wood, but thinking of the pillar is not thinking of wood. It is thinking of this pillar’s wood. Thinking of a person’s finger is not thinking of a person. Thinking of the catch of the hunt is, however, thinking of animals. Intention and outcome may not follow each other.

凡譽愛人,利人也,為其人也。富人,非為其人也。有為也以富人。富人也,治人有為鬼焉。為賞譽利一人,非為賞譽利人也。亦不至無賞譽於人。智親之一利,未為孝也,亦不至於智不為己之利於親也。

In general, what is praised is loving people and benefiting people for the sake of their being people. Enriching people is not for the sake of their being people. In terms of ‘for the sake of’, it is by enriching people that one enriches people. Bringing order to people is for the sake of ghosts. To consider reward and praise to be of benefit to one person is not to consider reward and praise to be of benefit to mankind, but it also does not mean that one does not reward and praise one person. To know a parent is one (person) and to benefit (the parent) is not to be filial, but it also does not go as far as to mean that one does not know that being filial is to benefit one’s parents.

智是世之有盜也,盡愛是世。智是室之有盜也,不盡惡是室也。智其一人之盜也,不盡是二人。雖其一人之盜,苟不智其所在,盡惡其朋也。

You may know there are robbers in this world, but still have complete love for this world. You may know there is a robber in this house, but not have complete hatred for this house. You may know that one of two men is a robber, but not have complete hatred for these two men. Although one of the men is a robber, if you don’t know which one it is, how can you have complete hatred for the associate?

諸聖人所先為,人效名實。實不必名。苟是石也白,敗是石也,盡與白同。是石也唯大,不與大同,是有使謂焉也。以形貌命者,必智是之某也,焉智某也。不可以形貌命者,唯不智是之某也,智某可也。諸以居運命者,苟入於其中者,皆是也,去之,因非也。諸以居運命者,若鄉里齊、荊者,皆是。諸以形貌命者,若山丘室廟者,皆是也。

The primary task for all sages must be to establish the correspondence of names and entities. Names and entities are not necessarily in accord. If this stone is white and you break this stone up, its whiteness is the same throughout. [If] this stone is large, the same does not apply to its largeness. This is the ordinary way of speaking about it. With things named on the basis of form and appearance, one must know it is this sort of object (entity) and then one knows what it is. With things that cannot be named on the basis of form and appearance, although one does not know it is this sort of object (entity), it is still possible to know it. With all things named on the basis of dwelling in or departing from, if there is entry into them, they are all this; if there is departure from them, they are not this. For example, district, village and the kingdoms of Qi and Jing are all things named on the basis of dwelling in or departing from, while mountains, hills, houses and temples are all things named on the basis of form and appearance.

智與意異。重同,俱同,連同,同類之同,同名之同,同根之同,丘同,鮒同,是之同,然之同。有非之異,有不然之異。有其異也,為其同也,為其同也異。一曰乃是而然,二曰乃是而不然,三曰遷,四曰強。子深其深,淺其淺,益其益,尊其尊。察次由比因至,優指得,次察聲端名,因情得。匹夫辭惡者,人有以其請得焉。諸所遭執,而欲惡生者,人不必以其請得焉。

Knowing and conceptualizing are different. There is the sameness of duplication (two names for the same entity). There is the sameness of being together (agreement). There is the sameness of being connected (components of one body). There is the sameness of the same class. There is the sameness of the same name. There is the sameness of the same root (origin). There is sameness related to region (place). There is the sameness of interdependence. There is the sameness of shi (the same in reality) and the sameness of ran (the subjective impression of sameness). There is the difference denoted by fei (different in reality) and the difference denoted by bu ran (the subjective impression of difference). There are instances of something’s difference being taken as its sameness, and of something’s sameness being taken as its difference; these are different. The first is said to be shi and ran (so objectively and subjectively). The second is said to be bu shi and bu ran (not so objectively and not so subjectively). The third is said to be qian (a transformation or change). The fourth is said to be qiang (a forced analogy).

With respect to Master Mo’s doctrines, look deeply into what is deep and superficially at what is superficial. Increase what should be increased; decrease what should be decreased. Examine sequence by means of comparison; as a consequence one comes to many manifestations. Next, examine sounds for the origin of names; as a consequence the reality is again made correct.

If a man avoids what he dislikes, others are able to ascertain his feelings. In the case of all those who meet with life’s vicissitudes, and in whom likes and dislikes arise, others are not necessarily able to ascertain their feelings.

聖人之拊瀆也,仁而無利愛,利愛生於慮。昔者之慮也,非今日之慮也;昔者之愛人也,非今之愛人也。愛獲之愛人也,生於慮獲之利,慮獲之利,非慮臧之利也,而愛臧之愛人也,乃愛獲之愛人也。去其愛而天下利,弗能去也。昔之知嗇,非今日之知嗇也。貴為天子,其利人不厚於匹夫。二子事親,或遇孰,或遇凶,其親也相若。非彼其行益也,非加也。外埶無能厚吾利者。藉臧也死而天下害,吾持養臧也萬倍,吾愛臧也不加厚。

The nurturing of the sage is based on ren (love, kindness, humaneness and benevolence) and not on benefit and love. Benefit and love arise from consideration. The consideration of former times is not the consideration of the present day. Love of Huo as loving another arises from considering Huo’s benefit and not from considering Zang’s benefit. Yet loving Zang as loving another is the same as loving Huo as loving another. If doing away with loving them brings benefit to the world, can one not do away with it? The knowledge of frugality in former times was not like that of the present day. The Son of Heaven may be rich, but in his bringing benefit to the people, he is not more generous than the ordinary man. [Suppose there are] two sons serving their parents. One may meet with a good year and the other a bad year yet, in benefiting their parents, they are the same. It is not that the former’s benefiting is increased (by the good year) and the latter’s diminished (by the bad year). External circumstances cannot determine the generosity of their benefiting. If the death of Zang were to bring harm to the world, although I might support and nurture Zang ten-thousandfold, my love for him would not be any greater.

長人之與短人也同,其貌同者也,故同。指之人也與首之人也異。人之體,非一貌者也,故異。戕劍與挺劍異,劍以形貌命者也,其形不一,故異。楊木之木與桃木之木也,同。諸非以舉量數命者,取之盡是也。故一指,非一人也,一人之指,乃是一人也。方之一面,非方也,方木之面,方木也。

A tall man and a short man are the same; their appearance is the same, therefore they are the same. A man’s head and a man’s finger are different. (The parts of) a man’s body are not of one appearance, therefore they are different. A jiang sword and a ting sword are different. Swords are named according to form and appearance. Their form is not the same, therefore they are different. The wood of the willow tree and the wood of the peach tree are the same. With respect to all things which are not named on the basis of measurement and number, when broken up they are completely uniform, therefore they are the same. One man’s zhi (representation, manifestation) is not the man himself, yet this one (particular) man’s zhi is, in fact, this one (particular) man. One surface of a cube is not a cube. A cube of wood’s surface is a cube of wood. A person’s spirit is not the person. An older brother’s spirit is the older brother.

夫辭以故生,以理長,以類行也者。立辭而不明於其所生,妄也。今人非道無所行,唯有強股肱,而不明於道,其困也,可立而待也。夫辭以類行者也,立辭而不明於其類,則必困矣。故浸淫之辭,其類在鼓栗。聖人也,為天下也,其類在于追迷。或壽或卒,其利天下也指若,其類在礜石。一日而百萬生,愛不加厚,其類在惡害。愛上世有厚薄,而愛上世相若,其類在蛇蚿。愛之相若,擇而殺其一人,其類在院下之鼠。小仁與大仁,行厚相若,其類在申。凡興利除害也,其類在漏甕。厚親不稱行而類行,其類在江上井。不為己之可譽也,其類在獵走。愛人非為譽也,其類在逆旅。愛人之親若愛其親,其類在官苟。兼愛相若,一愛相若,一愛相若,其類在死也。

Statements (propositions) originate from causes, grow according to reasons (principles, patterns) and proceed according to similarities (kinds, classes). To put forward statements (propositions) without a clear understanding of the causes from which they arise is foolish. If people do not follow the road (comply with principles), there is no way forward. Although there may be strength in the limbs, if there is no clear understanding of the road (principles), then obstacles may arise to halt progress. If statements (propositions) are set up without there being clarity about similarities (kinds, classes), there will be difficulty for sure.

1. Statements (propositions) gradually soak in; the analogy lies in the making of startling claims. 2. The sage acts for the sake of the world; the analogy lies in overcoming doubt. 3. One person may live a long life, another may die [young], yet their benefiting the world may be the same; the analogy lies in praising the name. 4. In the space of one day a million things come forth, yet love is not, thereby, more profound: the analogy lies in the abhorrence of harm. 5. In the love for the two ages there is the ‘thick’ and the ‘thin’, yet the love for the two ages is the same; the analogy lies in snakes intertwined. 6. Although all are loved equally, one man may be chosen and killed; the analogy lies in a rat in a hole. 7. Small ren (loving kindness, humanity, benevolence) and great ren have the same ‘weight’ in action; the analogy lies in the towel and the table. 8. Promote benefit and do away with harm; the analogy lies in stopping a leak. 9. In loving one’s parents ‘thickly’, do not consider their conduct but who they are; the analogy lies in the well above the river. 10. One may learn not to be selfish; the analogy lies in the hunter’s pursuit. 11. The love of man is not about being praised; the analogy lies in the innkeeper. 12. Love for the parents of others is like love for one’s own parents; the analogy lies in the concern for the general good. 13. Universal love is alike; the one love is alike. The one love is alike; the analogy lies in dying (killing the snake).